Monday, January 5, 2009
So, what's your problem?
I'd like to start this blog with an open forum where anyone can "air out" their feelings about any problem they are having in their effort to adopt children. With so many kids available, there ought to be someone for everyone. But, as many of us know all too well, it is so very difficult to make the connection. Hopefully, more and more workers will find time to read what people say here and learn what they need to change in order to help everyone - both us and the children.
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55 comments:
yep. they kicked us out alright. was it because we complained too much you think?
I dont think it was that we complained too much. I think the responses we all sent did burden the work load and they truly had to decide which was more important, the blog site or working directly with the states and families to solve the issues. I have dealt with AdoptUsKids on different ocassions and different levels and I can say that I have great respect and great trust for the staff.
I think the staff learned a great deal from all of us who blogged thus adding to their information concerning the system. They may have known the faults in the system on some level but dont think they realized the extent of the issues before all of us. I believe they also valued and appreciated all the comments we all made.
Thanks to Gary we have this site now and I would not be at all surprised if staff from AdoptUsKids does not follow it from time to time. While, because of their position within the "system", dealing with the families as well as the people in the "system" it must be difficult for them to ride the line, the organization is probably one of the most unbiased and neutral agencies we all could deal with. Their true concern is to see that children are placed in loving, stable homes.
I think that once we all become used to this site we wont really miss the other. I dont feel we were "kicked" out but that they truly had to make the decision as to what was more important in their goal to work with the system to place children and I have to agree with their decision. Again, having dealt with them on various levels I think that the concern they show with the faulty system and what they have learned from us will enable them to be of more assistance in troubleshooting problems for those of us who need it.
Chmae
Having been in contact with Kate, I can say that Chmae is right. AdoptUsKids will be providing a much greater service for us now as they devote maximum effort into helping to solve the problems that so many of us have faced. Hopefully, this site will be the new source for comments and questions, and that AdoptUsKids staff and adoption workers will monitor it closely.
Ultimatetly the goal for all agencies should be the timely and proper placement of children from the foster care system into permanent homes. I think the human nature in us tends to blame the "people" involved and while I do truly believe that some are definitely at fault I think there are many "rules" that they are forced to follow and in some respects they are limited by those "rules". I do think however that it is exactly those people who are forced to follow those rules and regs who can make the biggest difference when making changes.
I think it is a sad state of affairs when the caseworkers and people involved in placing the children are afraid to speak up for fear of losing their jobs. Many of those people also have families to support and their jobs are not something they can sacrifice. And I know from speaking with at least one worker that she feels that by staying in the system she is at least able to help some of the children. I also realize that the high turnover rate within these agencies is most likely due to the mistrust and frustration dealt with by the workers.
If we all take a stand on some front and at some point by contacting the government officials, etc then we can make a difference. It will take some time but it can be done.
I am glad that we still have a site. It helps to be able to communicate with those who have the same concerns we have,or those who have gone through similar experiences.
Please continue to post and share with each other.It has helped me in the past to gain a better understanding through those who have already gone through it.
Hi Carrie
Glad to see you here! I hope that if you are in contact with anyone who used the AdoptUsKids blog that you will forward this site to them. I would assume the archieves from that blog are still present and hope that many of the people who blogged there will continue to do so here. I think it is important for all of us to continue to express our concerns as well as needing a place to vent.
How is your process going? Would be interested in knowing what is going on with all of you.
well, i'm not sure if i have a prblem again or not. does that count?
Please see the old blog for my complete story...but to recap.
-inquired about a large sibling group. they were interested in us, but then we got ignored for a couple of months. this is a sibling group of 5...and they'd been on the board for well over a year. why did they not put this at high priority? someone finally inquired about them. then, the ball got rolling again, and we talked to a few people...got told that due to such a high number of inquiries (i'm rolling my eyes at this one), we are still in the running, but we not get a call back either way...and they didn't know how long it would be til they made a decision. great. that leaves me clueless. Well, mid-January and still nothing. Don't know if they haven't made a decision, whether or not we are still in the running...nothing.
We are still waiting (technically, although I've given up on it) to hear a finl word on a sibling group of 2. We were supposed to hear from then by the Friday before HALLOWEEN! Still no notice. They are still available as far as i can tell. The social worker found us, and contacted us for that one too. So it's not like I made the first move. That state, contacted our social worker and asked if we'd be interested. What a tease!
Just a few weeks ago, it happened again. A social worker in a different state, found our profile, and called our social worker. Our social worker emailed us and asked if we were interested. I said, YES! Our homestudy was sent, read, and more info on the kids was sent. I was able to read emails sent to our social worker from the kids social worker. It sounded great. She was really liking us. Oh, and by the way, ALL of this took place within an hour. Maybe I'm crazy, but since it took place so quickly, we got our hopes up. We figured that this was a sincere possiblity. But, again, it has lagged. Nothing. Why do social workers go after people so aggressively, and make it seem like, "HEY! we found you and you'd be perfect. will you PLEASE consider adopting these kids?" because any time we have answered,"yes," they disappear.
Why? WHy come find me and recruit me if you are just going to ignore me?
Here's the latest update from me, carried over from the AdoptUsKids blog.
Now that a worker has contacted the agency, the adoption supervisor is now saying that I have to go through MAPP classes for the 3rd time, since it has been more than two years since the last time. I guess they just can't believe that people are intelligent enough to remember that stuff after the first time. I remember it well enough that I could teach it. I'm glad I don't have to repeat my college courses every couple of years in order to keep my degrees.
Besides that, I teach children every day who come from dysfunctional backgrounds, some of whom are in foster care, and I deal with the behavior situations that they often present. Furthermore, some of these kids are worse than any of the examples given during the MAPP course. So, what could these MAPP instructors possibly teach me that I don't experience on a daily basis?
And the children keep waiting . . .
Syrag
I understand your frustration. Having done Therapeutic Foster Care for many years, being a Therapeutic Support Staff as well as my Psych/Soc degree I often wonder if I couldnt teach the "teachers" some things they dont know!! It does seem redundant however some states have different requirements than others and since you are indeed willing to go out of state it may be that this is a necessary evil, along with all the other hoops we are made to jump thru in this process.
To Anon
All I can tell you is that you need to try to cope and be patient. I was chosen as the resource for my new sons on Aug 15 and they have still yet not been placed. We are now shooting for mid Feb at the latest. There were i's not dotted and t's not crossed I think and this has slowed the process considerably. Changes in caseworkers, you name it and it has happened. However, they are totally worth the wait. I also have a friends who were selected about the same time and their children are also coming to them sometime in Feb. In that case it was a matter of TPR not being final and not being able to place/move the children out of state until that was final. So there may be many reasons that are not the fault of the caseworker that could cause delays.
I think it is important too to remember that depending on what state you are working with, a caseworker may indeed think you are the perfect family but that caseworker does not make the final decision. The studies and info are passed on to others who no doubt do not know the children as well but who make the final decision.
I will say this though. Having many many homestudies for a large sib group isnt all that unusual. I think that people are so sick of the system once they learn it that they have a tendency to inquire about the larger sib groups, if in fact they want several children, in order to get all of their children at once and not have to go thru this stinking process over and over again. This will make three times for me and I am sick of it myself.
The system is just a mess and if we all want to provide loving permanent homes for the available children we just have to grin and bear it.
Hi Chmae,
I am glad to be on this site and I am glad you are still here too.Your knowledge has helped me in the process.
As for me I finally got certified in Septemeber and got a sibling group of toddler girls the next day.I thought it would be a short term placement but the worker asked me if I was interested in a long term situation with them.
Things are looking pretty good for now,but as you know it can change quickly,so we will see.
How have you been and whats going on with you?
I have not heard from anyone so I hope that some of the bloggers from the previous blog will blog here soon.
Thank care
we currently have a financial problem. we are having trouble making our mortgage. We bought such a large house with hopes of adopting many kids. We were quite naiive about how difficult the system would be. It's not like we are counting on 100% of the subsidy paying our mortgage...please don't get me wrong! Not anywhere close to that. But we did figure 1-200 of it would go to the mortgage. We figured that we were doing something really good here. Buying a large house and opening our home to foster children. but now, like I said, no kids and no subsidy. We are on the fence of whether or not to sell the house. If we downsize, we won't have room for adoption. (we already have bio children). And I would be no less than HEARTBROKEN and want to curl up in a ball and cry, if we were to sell the house and then get the call that we were matched with some children. But we can't keep going like this!
Also, what's your viewpoint on being considered for one group, and then getting a call for another? Should we let them both know that someone else is considering us? We don't want it to hurt us, like have them BOTH just give up on us at the same time. However...with that said,i can't help but wonder (and hope) that it would get a caseworker to say, "Oh shoot! someone else might get them. We'd better get them while we can."
what should we do?
In both instances...mortgage and the other problem.
I cant comment or advise on the mortgage issue except to say that subsidy is to provide for the child(ren) and if some of that needs to go towards groceries, housing, etc I see nothing wrong with that. I know most of the subsidy information that I am familiar with the agreements specifically state that the state/county has the right to reduce the subsidy at any given time thus during these times of economic down turns I dont think people currently receiving subsidy should "count" on that income in order to stay afloat. Have you thought about doing some in home child care? One can easily earn extra money by doing this, particularly if you are willing to provide child care for someone who works second or third shift. These shifts are extremely difficult for parents to cover child care.
As far as letting caseworkers know what is going on with you, just be honest. I would simply state that an interest has been shown for your family for another sib group but it is nothing definite and you would be happy to be considered for the other group also. It isnt uncommon for people to be going to committee or selection for more than one child(ren) at a time. It honestly seems the only way that one can finally be selected - put your study out there for every possible match and then sit back and hope for the best. I cant think that it would do any harm to let a caseworker know that you are being considered and I think it would be best to be honest about that situation. While the system we are working in isnt fair or just at times, it would seem being honest would benefit everyone involved. I dont think that it is going to make you wait less except that the more your study goes out the more you will be considered. If you simply tell the worker that you are being considered for another sib group but that you are definitely trying to make the best match possible for all involved and you would be willing to consider another sib group also I think it would be a winning situation for all involved.
Dear Anon of 1/21/09:
I also have a mortgage, but my house is small. I want to take in a large sib grp, but I'm having trouble getting SW's to consider my application. It's definitely a catch 22 because, like you, I'm reluctant to make significant financial moves such as putting my current home on the market & purchasing a larger home when I haven't been placed w/children yet. Also, the wait for the adoption to be finalized is from 6 to 9 months (maybe even a yr).
For this reason, I'd rather wait for the adoption to be finalized BEFORE purchasing a large home because I don't want to be stuck w/a home I don't need. Unfortunately, the system wants us to have the large house BEFORE they'll give us a large sib grp - UGH!
Someone blogged on the previous website that s/he didn't know whether to put his/her life on hold while waiting for children. I think it's better to make hard decisions now. Don't put your life on hold because the adoption process is too long & you may not be able to wait forever - financially speaking. Char
Hi All
Just wanted to update everyone and let them know that sometime in Feb, barring more confusion and unforeseen circumstances, my boys will finally be coming home. It has been since August that I was selected and approved and just now getting to placement but it is happening. I am excited, to say the least.
When the caseworkers from the other state were here and we were going over all the info and the cases they specifically told me they hope that I am willing to use respite services that are available. This brought to mind the blog and the comments I had made previously.
I hope that people realize that respite is in some ways no different than asking a family member to watch the children for a week end get-a-way or for just some quiet time. Being a parent does not mean that one has to totally ignore their own needs nor does it mean the parents are permitted to have some kind of life of their own. I think it is especially important for parents who may not work outside the home to have some down time also. I truly believe it makes one healthier emotionally and a stronger more effective parent when utilizing these services.
I think many times there is pressure on women especially to be super MOM and to do it all without complaint or assistance. I think women sometimes fall into the trap of thinking that if they cant do it all and do it by themselves that they are a failure and this simply isnt true. Anyone who has parented a special needs child, be it adopted or biological, knows first hand the pressures that entails.
Again, while I do agree that when respite is used for the wrong reasons it can be negative, used for the right reason makes for emotionally healthy relationships between parent and child.
Hi all:
I'm reading "The Children and Youth Services Delivery System in Pennsylvania," a report that was issued in 11/02. I've only read 1/3 of the report, but it's very informative b/c it not only addresses ALL the issues we have been complaining about for a yr but it also offers valid solutions. For example, the report states that many social workers burnout b/c they have too many cases, are paid low wages, and/or take the brunt of the criticism when things go wrong, but receive no credit or praise when things go right - this is definitely true. The report also says that biological & foster parents have to be respected & treated as part of the child's "team." I don't know too many cases where these things are true. In fact, biological & foster parents are often treated as enemies, not allies, in the process.
This report offers many sound solutions to the problems that afflict the Children & Youth Services (CYS) in the Commonwealth. It also provides info on other states that have successfully used some of the methods discussed to improve and/or to eliminate serious problems within the system to make it work efficiently. Estelle Richman, the sec'y of Public Welfare here in PA wants to establish a committee to determine if an independent ombudsman's office is needed. This is a waste of time & money b/c the CYS report from '02 says, "Yes." I'll email the sec'y the URL link to the report.
For those of you who don't know, an ombudsman is someone who investigates citizen complaints against a gov't agency or politicians & s/he protects the citizen from retaliatory measures by using confidentiality. Also, if you want to read the report too, google "children and youth services" and "delivery system" and "Pennsylvania." Char
Follow up:
Regarding the request to take the MAPP class again, I'm a bit afraid to bother because of the double-talk that I've been issued.
First, I was told that my HS would be updated once I was matched with a child. Then, I was told that my HS would not be released to other agencies (I've been sending it all over the place myself) until I take the MAPP class for the 3rd time. Now, I'm told that the MAPP class is only administered by the agency that does foster care, and that THEY will do my HS all over again once I finish MAPP. In other words, I'm being asked to start all over again from the beginning.
Has anyone else out there who has been at this for at least 2 or 3 years been asked to retake their MAPP or similar training?
Hi Syrag
I am not sure that anyone can answer your question with any words that would make sense. LOL
My training is not specifically called MAPP but after reading the MAPP classes/requirements it covers the same materials. I had always believed that once MAPP was taken that it didnt need to be taken again but just the regular yearly required training hours and that is only if you are being cert for foster care. However, I do know that, AGAIN, different states have different regulations requiring the trainings thus FL may well require it.
Is the agency you are with a foster agency also, as well as adoption?
I know that some states will release a child to move to another state without TPR being complete but in doing this the child has to come to the new family on a foster care basis, thus the agency has to have foster care status as well as adoption. Then again, it may well be that your agency is requiring this for their own purposes.
In PA once an agency meets the state specific guidelines for trainings they can pretty much "require" whatever they please as far as trainings, etc. As an example the previous agency I was with limited the number of foster children per home to 3 and "blamed" the state for this limit when in fact the state reg is a limit of 6 (including your own bio children). They also put into effect a requirement that there must be one foster parent in the home that doesnt work outside the home 9 (kind of eliminates single parents LOL) and "blamed" it on the state but there is no such state reg.
It also could be, since I know that your old worker left, etc that maybe his/her work was shoddy or not complete and the agency is cleaning up messes from that person without wanting clients to know of the errors thus are starting from scratch with those clients that were on that caseload. And, knowing your situation as I do, it may well be this is simply another way for them to "legally" discriminate against you. I hate to say that but it well could be the case. You know I wont pull punches with you.
I know in PA we can access the state regs on line and am wondering if you can do the same? If you can find those regs it may help you in figuring this out. Another thing I personally would do is to call other agencies and anon ask the training questions. I know you have districts that you are bound too in FL but I would attempt to call other agencies in other districts and allow them to believe that you are in their district but that you had MAPP training and proof of that within whatever time period and ask if you will need it again or if it needs renewed at any point in time. If I am not mistaken, is not your agency a rather large agency that contracts all over your state?
Regardless of what the regs are your study shouldnt have to be completely redone. I know that there needs to be yearly clearances and a yearly update to a study no matter what state you are in. That is just an update though with an addendum, not a complete re-do.
I dont blame you in the least for "wondering" as I have wondered about such things in the past also. I wont presume to say that I have been discriminated against as you and other single men have been but due to my advanced age and single status there has in fact been some issues concerning my adopting. I dont blame you for wanting to get to the bottom of it and if you find that they are in fact using this as a form of discrimination, I would yell to high heaven about it to state officials.
FL sounds like their "system" is faulty in many of the same ways as PA. I know you recall me telling you about my worker placing children from FL and she is doing it at no cost to the family because the placing agency there in FL doesnt have the money for POS. She also has another family that she is placing children with out of FL, the same agency as far as I know but different district, Childrens Aid Homes (??) and she was resigned to again not being paid for this placement however they asked her to submit her POS contract for payment. I find it hard to believe that these agencies dont have the funds to pay out of state workers for placements. I ran into the same thing (recall the little handicapped boy I was looking at where the agency did not release all the info and stated they didnt have money to pay POS?) This agency later called her back and asked if I was still interested and they could now pay the POS. LOL So I have no doubt that working out of FL like you have to do and being limited to a choice of agencies that you are frustrated and at the end of your rope.
By the way, I without mentioning your name or specific state, mentioned your situation to my out of state caseworker and her supervisor (NJ) and according to them they dont have issues in that state with placing male or female children with single men of quality as you are. You might want to search in that state for children. They specifically said that they have place many children in single male homes.
Just please dont give up. I know how much you want children and there is no doubt in my mind that you want children for the right reasons and you would make a wonderful father. There are kids out there who need you.
I have to give kudos to NJ though. There have been some hitches, some the fault of the worker and some not, but they have been a good state to deal with, almost as good as OR. There are some requirements by the State of NJ that are not the same as other states and the process is a little different in some respects but all in all they are a great state to work with. (Again, the human factor plays into this somewhat. LOL )
If I can find the time I will research what I can on line concerning FL and their regs as well as talk to my worker to see if she can offer any insight. Presently, one of my good friends thru her agency as well as another family left for FL yesterday to pick up the children that they are adopting.
The other thing, I just thought of this, after all it is 3:30 a m. is that possibly FL is doing like many other states and transitioning to foster to adopt only. If this is the case it would make sense that they are re certifying everyone. I would just make sure of the real reasons they are doing this so that you can advocate for yourself.
I wish I could have been more help and had some answers for you but I just dont. I can only tell you what I would do in your situation.
Keep us posted.
Chmae
I don't think it is Florida law that governs whether or not MAPP must be retaken periodically, but "agency law" that rules. I will follow your suggestion and see what I can find out through research. The agency in the Tampa Bay area that I've found acceptance with has not said anything about it, and they are perfectly happy with my current update, which was completed a year and a half ago.
The circuit in which I live has one agency that does adoptions, and one that does foster care, so I don't know why the foster care agency is doing all of the training and studying. (Don't they already have enough to do?)
I did start looking somewhat specifically at NJ since I knew that your twins are from there and that you have been treated fairly well. In fact, my study is currently in the possession of at least one worker who is considering me for a young lady. There are other states, such as NC, where I may not get consideration any longer because the state sets an 18 month limit on studies. If I have to go through MAPP and the study process again, I may as well not apply there any more.
Yes, I have certainly wondered if I may be facing discrimination. You know the scenario: If it looks like a stall tactic, and it smells like a stall tactic, then it probably is . . . . .
Syrag
Just wanted to let you know that I just emailed someone in NJ on an upper level that I have been working with and mentioned you to her and asked if they would be interested in your study. If I hear back from her I will let you know. I really dont know her that well or really have any pull or connections but thought that mentioning your situation might bring some attention. I hope you dont mind. With the system the way it is, I figured that it was worth a shot anyway. I also mentioned Char and asked if they would be interested in her study too. LOL It may not help but then I figure it surely cant hurt anything either!!!
Carrie,
I hope things work out for you and the children in your home. I dont have a lot of faith in PA, as you know, but wish you the best. I wonder, since your kids are PA kids, if you could answer a question for me. When I adopted from OR and now NJ I have basically received the boys entire casefile for my records. This hasnt happened with PA. My son had been in care for a minimum of 4 years, probably more, and I have about 20 pages of paperwork on him. I thought that it was a requirement that the entire case file was turned over to the adoptive parent. I just dont want to ruffle any feathers with this county by demanding this info if in fact I am not entitled to it. I am already known as a "pain" to them (me - a pain? not me!! LOL) and since my adoption worker works a lot with this county or who knows, maybe there will be other kids for me from there, so would just like to know what your experience has been with this. I appreciate it.
To all -
I have been emailing workers that I can find addresses for and nearly begging them to offer their advice to us on this blog. If any of you know workers, please do the same. We all know they are busy, but it only takes a few minutes to log on, offer some advice in the social worker section, or read a few of our blogs and answer the questions.
Also, if you know anyone who has aged out of the system, or is about to, please encourage them to share with us.
found out today that we didn't get a sibling group that we had our heart set on. they said that the group was too aggressive. I found this odd, because they weren't listed as anything of the sort. You know the classifications? Emotionl, developmental....all those? They weren't even "mild." They were classified as 'none.' Why would they either leave out info like that on the write up...or just make it up instead of telling us that we just weren't 'the ones.'?
Also, it could just be because I had my heart set on them, but my first reaction was-'how bad could it be?' Wrestling? usual fights and arguments? It's not like I'm not going to supervise them.
Kinda sad. I really liked these kids. :(
hey..
i need info asap. what's a selection staffing? Our caseworker has a conference call tmrow with their case worker. this is good, right? How close do you think we are? we've never had one of these done before! Do they do this with the top 3 families? or top 10? or the one that's the best? HELP!! any info would help!
excited....but don't worry. not getting my hopes up TOO much. :)
To anonymous who is concerned about the selection staffing.
I'm not sure what that is, especially since you apparently weren't invited, but I've been to four match staffings. A match staffing is where you sit down with anybody and everybody who has anything to do with the child(ren) and discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly in its entirety. If you aren't scared away at that point, you might get to start visitation. I don't know if a selection staffing is anything like that, but it sounds like the social workers are going to discuss your viability as these kids' parents. Maybe someone else can shed more light on that. (Hopefully a worker or two or three that reads this blog.)
To anonymous who supposedly can't handle a group with no problems, but that is too agressive.
That does sound awfully fishy. I know that they are required to make narratives very positive, but if there is something "wrong" with these kids, they ought to tell you as soon as you are cleared for confidentiality. I can't help but think something is "up" here, but I can't put my finger on what.
Chmae
In the past I have gotten a lot of info on the children that I adopted,however based on what you are saying it seems like you have been given a lot more info then what I have recieved.I don't know what the problem is with that.With the children I have now,since I am the first to have them it seems a lot easier because I know them more then the workers do at this point.
Things are going very well for me right now,but I already know how quickly things change.Right now i am taking it day by day and praying for the best.
Don't worry if they lable you a "pain" I was labeled that as well, in fact on a visit last week,my worker told me I have to stop inquiring on children.Seems the workers are requesting my homestudy and because they girls are with me,they cannot send it out.
Thats fine with me now because I want these girls to stay with me and I am so happy.I wish the best for everybody else.
Hi All
As far as I know a selection staffing, or selection committee meeting, is when the workers have narrowed the studies down to a few and a team meets to discuss each study recieved and chooses a family. I would assume these children are not in your immediate area. Many states will look at the studies, narrow it to a few and then the conference with the adoption worker is so that your worker can present and "sell" you as the perfect family for the child(ren). The next step for the family selected should be for the caseworker to present all the pertinent info to the family. Many states will not release any delicate or confidential information until a family has been selected. So, it does mean that you are being seriously considered for the child(ren).
For the family that the children were considered too aggressive. I have found in some cases that aggressive has meanings within the "system" that it doesnt necessarily have to us. It could mean just that, physical aggression between the sibs, it could mean physical aggression towards adults but it can also mean verbally aggressive, it could mean sexual acting out, it could mean just about anything. I would say that even though the initial narrative doesnt mention this that it must be a relatively serious issue. Whenever in the past I have received "news" like this I always count my blessings that the info was disclosed. Too many times caseworkers dont take the behaviors and issues seriously enough or ignore much and then the family doesnt receive the correct info on the kids and goes into less than prepared. I dont think it is an excuse but that the children are a handful.
If we do get chosen at this selection, from what I'm reading on other forums and chat boards, there is a good chance that I'll find out that day? And also, i heard/read that it is a good sign if the process of inquiry-homestudy-staffing selection is doen quickly...due to them already knowing who they want. Is that true?
Has anybody had any experience with ICPC and how long it takes? what we should plan on for visits beginning and how many,how long, etc? How long before they come to stay with us? I'm thinking they'll wait til the end of the school year, but some of the stories I'm reading have me confused.
some people follow ICPC, some don't. SOme people follow it strict,and require it be done before children are taken out of state, others don't. Will the ICPC start and begin at our last visit? SOme people didn't even have visits! they were chosen, and the kkids arrived a month later! yikes!
i fully realize I asked TONS of questions..but any help would be appreciated!
ANON 1/30
When I went to selection committee in OR I was notified that evening that I was selected. OR requires a 2 week waiting period, though, for the selected family to give it more thought and to be sure before they proceed to telling the children, a smart move in case the prospective parents would change their mind.
I dont know where you heard that some states follow ICPC and some dont. ICPC is absolutely a LEGAL process that HAS to be followed. ICPC is the following - the sendign state and the receiving state submit all paperwork where each and every document concerning the parents as well as the children is looked at and then if and only if that paperwork is correct and in order, does ICPC approve the move. It could be that the sending state forgets to send a form or the sending state requires something that the receiving state does not and more info is requested. Once ICPC sees that all requirements are met and only then will they "marry" the paperwork from both states and do the approval. I have known cases where a state has allowed children to do an extended visit and if ICPC approval comes during that visit the children just remain in the adoptive home but ICPC, unless it is a private adoption, is not "optional". Without ICPC the children have no medical coverage and I dont know of any states that will allow a child(ren) to move without some kind of medical insurance in place before the move. I am not 100% sure but believe this is federal law. Of course, this again, depends on the state. If I would have had private health insurance that would have added my sons to the policy OR would have allowed them to move before the medical was in place.
ICPC is a safeguard for the children as well as the system. I truly believe that the process is generally done relatively quickly, depending on the workers involved. I know in both my of my out of state cases it was approved within a couple of weeks of all paperwork being submitted. EX-the boys I am currently waiting to be placed in my home - ICPC was submitted by my worker and the sending state and approved within two weeks. Now we are waiting for the medical insurance to be transfered to my state. As I understand it, as it was with OR and now the current state I am working with, once the sending state receives the copy of my signed adoption subsidy agreement, that is then forwarded to their main office who has a form to fill out and then the info is faxed and sent to ICPC in my state who sends it to the proper department that then oversees the medical coverage is in place. Only then can my boys come to live in their new home. Again, I believe it is legally required that this be done so that no child in the system goes as much as one day without medical coverage and in my case especially necessary since my boys are considered medically fragile.
I wish I could give you some more
definite answers but many factors do play into this. Some states require that TPR is final before placement. Some states will allow a child to be moved without that being done but it is a risk. I know of a case just here recently when a family was approved, the children had been in care for over 3 years, there were plans to travel to the sending state and visit/bring the children home, but at the last court hearing the bio mother showed up with an attny and the judge did not terminate rights but gave the bio mother more time to get her act together. I just never "count" on a child or children until the day they actually move into my home. I personally would not take legal risk children either.
Visits and travel also depend much on the sending state and their requirements. With my OR children I was able to start calling them and contacting them after the initial two week period had ended. If I recall correctly I began contact with them in late April or early May and they were home with me at the beginning of Aug. I did no prior visit but went to OR for a five day period, met with the boys and their worker, foster families etc and at the end of the 5 days the boys returned home with me. The state I am currently working with requires a visit by the adoptive parents, a visit to the new home and at times another visit to their state before placement. This I would say is the norm but in my current case, again, my boys have special needs that I need to learn their care etc so have been required to do several visits before they come home. In many cases, if the children are receiving therapy or any kind of treatment, the visits will include meeting with their current therapists, etc. before placement. There just isnt any clear cut answer to that question as even within some states the requirements could vary from county to county.
You are correct that some states prefer to wait until school has ended but that isnt always the case either.
The best thing I can tell you to do is if you are selected, just ask. I was a little hesitant to do this my first time around but find myself so overwhelmed with these questions that if chosen even to go to selection committee I ask whoever I am speaking to the "standard" procedure. I always let them know that I realize that this may vary somewhat and isnt written in stone but will ask what their "typical" process is for the placement process. I think most workers understand that this is a point of frustration for some adoptive parents and are more than glad to address these issues.
Personally I dont try to
second guess why or how they choose or do the process. I know some states require that they have a certain number of home studies before even going to committee. I allowed my study to be submitted for a sib group that I really had no interest in simply because the caseworker needed another study before she could go to committee and get these kids placed. I dont agree with caseworkers doing this and getting the hopes up of an unknowing family but I knew why they wanted to use my study and since I knew that I wouldnt be the selected family but just a "fill in" to assist in getting these children placed and out of the system, I agreed and took no issue with it. Some states require, for example, 10 studies before they will even go thru them and narrow it down to a final 3 or 4 that then go to committee. And, quite honestly, sometimes I think the caseworker and team have found the perfect home in their eyes and even though they are required to complete the process before a selection proceeds, they already know who they are going to choose.
I dont think how quickly the selection is scheduled has much to do with it being better or worse. It could be that they currently have 2 good possibilites but need that third in order to finish the process. They may well have had those two studies for months until the third acceptable study comes in but once they have that they can proceed rather quickly.
Some states, like OR, have contracted workers that represent your family at the selection. I was called and interviewed by someone independent of the state, the interview took two calls and I think about 3 hours total and then along with my study and this phone interview I was presented and represented at the meeting without needing to physically be there. Then there are the situations like you mentioned where a phone conference is scheduled and your adoption worker presents you to the workers involved.
All I can tell you is that if you are looking for concrete answers you wont find them in the system we are working with and each indiviual case can and usually is different. You will just add to your frustration if you attempt to read more into a situation or try to figure out what others are thinking.
This I can tell you for sure. Getting to selection and being chosen is the biggest hurdle. Once selected, unless you change your mind or there is a legal hitch, such as in the case I mentioned, the waiting for ICPC after is the easy part. I wanted my OR kids home asap but just knowing they would eventually be here made the whole wait easier. I want my new boys home also but this has been an ongoing process since August but also the easiest part. It is the waiting to find the children and be selected that is the worst. LOL
Oh, you asked if ICPC starts with the first visit. ICPC can start without the visits or after, again, it depends on the workers and states involved. Still, all in all, if ICPC is done correctly, it shouldnt be a matter of over a month for final approval unless of course, there are some hitches.
Sorry I couldnt give you more definite answers but it just doesnt work that way.
Good luck and keep us posted.
we had the staffing meeting...I was prepared to find out afterwards. not only on this blog, but many other blogs, forums and chat rooms...they all said that I'd most likely find out today. But wouldn't you know it... I'd have to be the odd ball. We won't find out for another week. I'm hoping they make up their mind sooner?
WE GOT THEM! They didn't take a week to decide! Our SW called this morning and said that they told her that we'd be a GREAT match for the sibling group. I'm still in shock I think! :) Can't stop smiling!
To anonymous -
That's wonderful news! It is encouraging to those who are wondering if they will ever be picked. It's nice to know that being bogged down with problems is NOT inevitable.
Gary-
I agree. I think, from now on, when I tell people about adoption, I will tell them, and really stress to them, that it could easily be over a year before they are matched. It was close to a year and a half, and we weren't picky on race,age or number of siblings. We inquired about more than 200 cases....I think if someone would have told me that it would take close to a year, I wouldn't have been so impatient. I'd much rather plan for a year or more and be pleasantly suprised.
Now, onto visitations. Anybody been there, done that? Should we bring our bio kids too? we are traveling from NC to TX. I'm thinking maybe ask the CPS worker to find us some respite care for the DAY while we bond/meet with the kids, and then for dinner get everybody together. Do we get them little presents at first?
any advice for the road here on out?
My case may be unusual, so I don't want to cast a shadow; just make you aware of the possibilities.
I've been matched four times, and started visitation three of those times. The first time, the 12-year-old boy rejected me the day that he met me without ever giving a reason.
The second time, the three girls never knew about it. The house parents of one of the girls talked us out of it because of the severe problems she was having.
The third time, we did several weekend visits before the 14-year-old boy decided things were happening too fast. So, one week before the scheduled move-in date, he backed out at least temporarily. His 10-year-old sister was fine and ready to move in. However, the paternal grandparents then came out of nowhere with an approved home study and took them.
The fourth time, the 14-year-old boy and his 12-year-old sister did three visits before letting it be known that they did not want to move out of the city that they had lived in for several years.
If the children that you've been matched with are young, you're probably in good shape. Again, I don't want to depress you before you even meet the kids, I just want you to have your eyes open.
Give it to God and prayerfully trust Him with the entire situation, and then just relax.
I hope someone else will share a much more successful experience than I have had.
"I hope someone else will share a much more successful experience than I have had."
I hope so too! :)
I dont intend to frighten or discourage anyone but being selected isnt necessarily the end of the line for some.
I, too, like Syrag, have been selected several times only to have the placement fall thru in the end. I was selected for a sib group that in the end, the issues were so severe that the children were seperated and sent to seperate residential facilities. I was selected for another sib group, and while previously the parents who adopted their other sibs were asked and declined, before they could be placed in my home the people who adopted the others decided to adopt their sibs also. I was selected for a group but learned after I was the number one choice that it was essential for them to remain in their home state due to visitation with sibs and then several months later contacted and asked again to take them only to have that rescinded a few days later. The kids had gone to a matching event and people in their state stepped up and decided to adopt them. So, until the day the children actually come to my home I never consider it a done deal. You just cant allow yourself to do that as the disappointment can be huge.
As far as visits, it is different with each state. OR did not allow me to bring children with me for the visit and return home with the children. The state I am working with currently is encouraging me to include the other children. I have heard, and again, this may vary from county to county within each state, that the standard procedure for TX is that the adults visit and then the caseworkers at a later date bring the children to their home state either to meet the new parents at the airport or directly to their new home. Again, please dont take this as gospel, but I know several families that have adopted from that state and it has been that way each time.
I would NEVER ask a caseworker to provide some kind of respite services for any children I was taking with me to a visit. If I was taking children with me I would see to it there was someone along who could care for the children while you and your spouse are meeting the children and doing whatever paperwork is needed to proceed. Many workers, when the children you are adopting are involved in therapy, have learning disablities, etc will want you and your spouse to meet with therapists, teachers, etc. I would not want to take children along for such meetings. The idea is for you to focus on the children you are adopting so that the worker knows that they are a priority in your life.
The "presents" I gave were not gifts, per say, but pictures of family, any brochures I could find for the activities in the area where we live, and I had also written each child a short letter telling them how I felt about them coming into our lives and family. I dont think there would be anything wrong with taking them a small gift, however, when they do actually move in with you there will be many items that are new to them and that are provided by you. Personally, I just prefer to express the importance of family and their new surroundings and think that is a gift in itself. My sons had pics of their school, the area we lived in , the house, their rooms, the family, pets, places of attraction in the area as well as places we frequently visit. I tried to focus on each childs age and their interests so that each little package I did was of interest to the individual as well as a little different from each other.
There is nothing wrong with you point blank asking the caseworker or your adoption worker what comes next and a step by step description of the rest of the process. It is better to ask than hang in limbo. LOL
Again, not to frighten or discourage you. but things can and do wrong so until those kids are actually with you, you need to keep a bit of "distance" for your sake and the sake of the family. Things can and do go wrong in some cases so it is best to be prepared for such a thing.
I have to comment on something someone I know just went thru. Gary you will love this as it pertains to FL.
Someone I know rather well just went to FL a couple of weeks ago and brought home their new children. The kids left with caseworkers to go back to FL just a day or so ago. A lot of information was NOT disclosed to the adoptive parents, including sexualized behaviors of two of the children. When they were able to go thru the paperwork regarding these children they found a plan that prohibited one of these children to be around children younger than herself yet she was placed in a home with younger children, both bio of the family as well as her younger sibs.
There is much more to the story than just that but just thought it would be good to blog about it and let people know that they are within their rights and SHOULD in fact demand full disclosure before bringing any children into their home.
As some of you may recall, a FL caseworker did this to me also, however, it never went to the extreme of having the child placed and then leaving. It almost came to me doing a visit to FL at which time when I would have learned the other issues I would have declined the placement. That would have been trying enough but to have the children in your home and for them to think they had a permanent home based on lies? I just dont get it.
Maybe Maesie could provide a little insight as to why a caseworker would be so irresponsible and underhanded to do such things? I have no doubt that Maesie would not, but are there pressures that are such to get these kids placed that workers would put not only the adpotive children but the parents and their bio children in such a horrible position? I can think of no excuse for it and if as a caseworker my boss would order me to place children unethically, I would in fact resign my position rather than be a party in such a horrendous scheme.
Again, just another fault in the system and just a word for everyone to beware and not to take the "word" of anyone but to cross all your T's and dot all of your I's. BEWARE
I am new to this so I hope this does not sound like a "stupid" question. For those out there who send out their own homestudies, do you have your picture attached to it? I ask because I think when our Adoption worker sends ours out she does attach a photo. Don't get me wrong we LOVE our DSS Adoption worker, we think she is the hardest working one in Columbia, SC. We just want to know what is the norm with your homestudy. I read on here that someone sends a cover letter, great idea by the way,. Thanks for any help given.
hey, it's maesie.
sorry i haven't been around much, my daughter is having some health issues so my hours have been restricted.
Just wanted to address some things:
to annonymous who wanted to know why the kids were listed as having no impairments on the AUSK profile, but then were described as being aggressive: a lot of states will not disclose impairment information because of HIPPA. I don't quite get this, but I see it happen a lot. Also, not all the workers fill out completed profiles, so it could be that the worker never bothered to update that information.
chmae, you wanted my opinion as to why a worker would not disclose information? I have NO idea, that seems like the most backwards thing in the world to me. I want my families to know eVERYTHING about my kids before they even meet them, otherwise they're not making an informed decision regarding whether these kids are appropriate for them, and the placement has a higher likelihood of disrupting, kids (either mine or others in the home) have a greater chance of being harmed/abused/neglected. Also, I don't want my kids to go through a disruption!
As a worker, I experience a lot of frustration as well. I just had the most wonderful match I could have ever dreamt of for a 15 year old boy on my caseload. I had spent a lot of time thinking about the best family for this boy, but then when I found this family they far exceeded my expectations! Most amazing of all, they thought the match was perfect for them as well! We were about to have the case conference when their worker told them if they adopted my boy, they wouldn't be able to adopt the other 2 kids they had planned on adopting, and likely wouldn't have any other placements approved either. All this because my boy had one incident of non-consentual sexual acting out FOUR YEARS AGO!!! Back when he had first come into care, hadn't had any therapy to overcome his own sexual abuse, etc, etc. I don't blame the family for this, I blame the incompetent workers who could not recognize all the wonderful qualities this family has and the safety plan they have in place to ensure nothing would ever happen to the children in their home.
So, if anyone that reads this blog would consider adopting a wonderful, sweet, kind, loving 15 year old boy with developmental delays and ONE incident FOUR YEARS AGO of sexual acting out, please contact me!
chmae,
I don't mean to sound rude, but who would you suggest I ask for childcare then? This is traveling halfway across the country. I have no points of contact whatsoever in that state.
This is just a note to let you know that, while I check my email several times a day and see messages that tell me that you blogged, the school district that I work for blocks access to blogs from its computers. Therefore, I am unable to publish your blogs until I get home and boot up my own computer.
Thank you to all of those who posted on never being to confident when you are chosen for a child. I have been a foster parent for a child for the last 6 months who is part of a larger sibling group.All the children are in different homes with the middle child been in a kinship foster home.
Both parents have decided they will voluntarily terminate parental rights for all except the child that I have, with the other siblings going to the family member.The parents want to get the child back that I have,but thus far things are not working out for them and I was asked if I was willing to adopt the child.Of course I said yes !!!
Now I find out that the parents who gave up their rights have the option of saying where they want the child to go and I doubt very much it will be with me.
In the best interest of the child I will do what is best, but it is hard and right now I am not sure how this whole situation will turn out.I am anxious,nervious and scared that they will take this child from the only real stability they have had in life.
Now I understand why they say don't get attached........
For those of you who have been wondering why we haven't heard from Kate at AdoptUsKids, she is forbidden from blogging under her name or the organization's name, but encourages anyone who wants to know what their efforts have been to log-on to www.adoptuskids.org for the latest information.
Is anyone still reading this blog? There has been nothing for about two weeks.
It really looks that way. Seems ADOPTUSKIDS'blog was really active.
Where is everybody and whats going on?
Here we go again.Is it just me or has this happened to other foster parents.I signed up with a private foster parent company only to find out they are connected with the county offices.
The county worker tells me anytime I have a question to feel free to contact her.Well i contacted her and she ran back and told my agency about it.
My agency contacts me to "spank" me because I should not be consulting with the county office.
I would like to hear from the professional as well to let me know why this is being done and if I am not allowed to talk to the county workers why are they coming into my home,conducting another inspection, the whole nine yards when all this was done already.
This is confusing and I am to the point that I want to stop being a foster parent.
Has anyone adopted from Washington State, who isn't in Washington State? If so can you tell me how your process went and how long it took. We are in SC and we hope to adopt a young lady from WA.
It appears this blog has died, there has been little to know comments in the last month and I would really like some help if I could get some concerning fostercare. Is there anyone out there who is a foster parent and our a foster parent case worker?
Fostermom -
I'll see what I can do. I have the email address of one very knowledgeable person who has blogged here, and I think she has the email address of another who has foster parent experience.
Keep checking.
Gary
P.S. I am also wondering why the blog has seemed to have died. I don't know what else to do that I haven't already done to promote the blog.
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Just wondering where everybody is??
If anyone is still actively reading this, please read Dana Mack's "The Assault on Parenthood" (2000). Even though it's currently out of print, you can still borrow it from the library. I found it last week & I haven't been able to put it down b/c Mack exposes the corruption, maniputlation, coercion, & retribution that are too often the methods used by the child welfare industry to look out for its own interests, not those of children or anyone else. According to Mack, many politicians, lawyers, social works, child welfare agencies are heavily invested in the scamming not only foster children but also their biological parents and foster parents. This is also probably why many of us have been unable to foster/adopt children out of the system. I compare it to being told you're running the 400 meters hurdles. You look at the four hurdles around the course & determine that you can jump them. You take your position at the starting line; the gun explodes; and you run at breakneck speed toward the first hurdle. Just when you jump, the child welfare industry uses a remote control device to raise the hurdle higher & you crash into it & get seriously injured. You are dazed & confused, but you're willing to try again b/c you don't know that you're fighting a losing battle, that the game is rigged for you to ALWAYS lose. So back to the starting line you go & the same thing happens again. You then get frustrated and angry & decide to adopt from overseas b/c it's easier. A friend
To Anonymous Friend:
Another analogy is the way that Lucy in the Peanuts cartoons always fools Charlie Brown into believing that THIS TIME he is really going to get to kick the football, only to have her once again pull it away at the last second.
With your help, I hope we can get this blog going again. It went pretty well for a few months after AdoptUsKids quit their blog, but then it mysteriously died rather suddenly. Spread the word and I'll be glad to keep moderating.
Thanks for writing and suggesting that book.
Dear all:
I agree that the Charlie Brown never getting to kick the football analogy is the same as the one I posted yesterday about the hurdles. The result is that everyone involved (i.e. innocent biological parents, foster children & foster parents) gets hurt. I did think of it & thanks for including it here.
When you read Mack's "The Assault on Parenthood," start w/ch. 2 b/c it's frighteningly accurate. You'll also realize that this blog may have died b/c of the rabid corruption within the child welfare industry. For example, Mack talks about the fact that, after waiting years, many prospective foster-to-adopt parents in America get frustrated & they look overseas to adopt b/c the laws in this country are not only convoluted but also crazy. In other words, in some parts of the country, if your adoption is finalized, the biological parents can contest the adoption & get the child(ren) back!
Next, I believe that this bad economy is great business for the child welfare industry in that, when parents lose their jobs, their health care, their health, and/or their homes, the child welfare system swoops in & takes their children not b/c they abused or neglected their child(ren) but b/c they "lack the material means to care for the child(ren)." In other words, to the child welfare industry, being poor constitutes abuse & neglect. Also, Mack's book will open your eyes to the fact that race, gender, ethnicity, and/or economic income have little to do w/whose children are taken -the child welfare industry is an equal opportunity exploiter in that it will take anyone's child(ren) for little or no reason.
I also think that many former foster children haven't responded to this blog b/c they are often asked to tell their stories @ conferences & they think that something's going to be done about the child welfare industry holding children hostage in the foster care system in perpetuity, but nothing gets done. What they know is that they are often being used once again by the same system that victimized them in the past. This time the system uses them not to fix the problems but to formulate legislation that will increase the number of years children are held hostage from 18 yrs to 21 yrs. Make no mistake, the system looks out for its own interests & its motto is: profit at any cost.
For blogging purposes, I'm using the name: Slingshot. Thanks for your input. Slingshot.
Hi all:
I sent a letter to Daniel Zwerdling, a national correspondent for NPR. He's an excellent investigative reporter & I understand that when he takes up an issue, it becomes national & those in positions to do something about an issue rush to do so. I sent him a copy of Mack's Ch. 2 so that he can have an idea of what's really going on in the child welfare industry.
I know that many of you are discouraged b/c we've been complaining for years & nothing is being done. I know you also think that no one is listening, but I believe that we just have to get our info to the right person who will blow the thing out of the water!
I'm starting another letter/email writing campaign. I'm sending info to the federal comptroller whose job it is to monitor fraud within American gov't. I'm also targeting state comptrollers, so I have a lot of work to do. It's worth it b/c compassion, not cruelty, has to be at the core of the child welfare industry. Slingshot
i feel frusted my husband and I have been through this process for going on a year now we finally got set up for an interview where told that we would get a call back on monday by 3pm no call I called left a messaged and emailed at 8:30 pm we got the call they stated that they did not chose us because and I can't believe this came out of her mouth but " We didn't chose you because your husband is in a wheelchair and will not be able to care for a child" NUmber 1 they never asked what he could do in any sitatuation with children we have god children and have nieces and newphews he plays with them has been there in emergancies and has done great just because hes in a wheelchair doesn't mean he can't live life and do things how dare she judge him without even asking how he would be able to handle a situation. So they are saying because hes handicapped can't have kids on his own because of that that makes him unable to take care of any children.. This is wrong you don't judge people and you don't discriminate because you think you know we where honest I am home too I work from home We have relatives that live close by too. There was no reason for her to say such a thing. So my understanding is that if we go for anyother children that this will be an issue that just because my husband is in a wheelchair then he has no right to raise children! That's BS. We support each other in everything we do that includes how are children would be raised.
To Anonymous whose husband uses a wheelchair:
Welcome to the wonderful world of child welfare! It is definitely frustrating when those who are charged with protecting the best interests of the children have no idea what they are. That is why I personally gave up on adoption. After a while, there simply isn't any wind left in the sails.
Dear Anonymous whose husband's in a wheelchair:
It is unfortunate that you are experiencing discrimination based on your husband's disability. These agencies & SW's aren't supposed to discriminate, but because there's no accountability anywhere in the system that I've seen, this kind of thing is rampant. You still should try to get children. Also, talk to an attorney who specializes in persons w/disabilities.
I've been trying to adopt for years & I've decided to go through a private adoption agency - which costs an arm, a leg, and & thigh - because the child welfare system & I will NEVER be on the same page. I'm still telling people about the abuse and neglect that the child welfare system heaps on foster children, biological parents, & foster parents. Take care. Slingshot
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